Comments on: Soy vs. Polyurethane: Spray Foam Wars

By: Shane

Shane — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:26:19 +0000

Re: Trimmings. Any demos I have seen result in 30 – 50% excess. While this excess can be cut off, and reused at the bacl of the next cavity, it does seem that the contractors should be better at judging the amount needed, as opposed to the amount that is easy to apply. If a thinner layer could be applied, a plastic-coated board, or stiff plastic film could be applied to hold the material from expanding quite so much.

By: Ivan Crago Missoula Realtor

Ivan Crago Missoula Realtor — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 20:01:27 +0000

Maybe I’m off base with this thought as I have used fiberglass in the homes I’ve built, but can’t the trimmings from foam be used in the ceiling as part of the fill to get to whatever insualting value you are wanting to achieve and not have any waste at all?

By: SHS

SHS — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 16:05:47 +0000

George,

Great idea. Whether it is technically feasible is another thing. Let us know if you hear from them.

SHS

By: George J. Birds Jr.

George J. Birds Jr. — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 05:00:29 +0000

Below is an e-mail I wrote a short while ago to Tiger Foam. No response yet. What do you think of this idea?

Thanks, George J. Birds Jr.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tiger Foam
technical@tigerfoam.com

02-07-09

Dear Technical Department,

I have been pondering which way to build my new home. I definitely want to install foam for all of the roof and wall insulation. I also want a conventionally stick built home in order to eliminate the high cost of Structural Insulated Panels. My problem comes from the necessity of having to remove the overspray of Tiger Foam after filling the wall and roof cavities. This removed foam needs to be either disposed of or used in additional insulated areas. Is it unreasonable to have a special gun to apply the liquid foam and at the same time mix ground up foam as the wall cavities are being filled? It is essentially similar to fiberglass being shredded from a big roll and mixed with resin as tanks or boats are being made. My idea would take more equipment than the present Tiger Foam Kits, but it would make a great way to get rid of the trimmings from the removed foam as well as a way to utilize scrap foam. This may cut the final cost of the Tiger Foam because there would be very little waste; and the added ground up scrap foam would reduce the amount of Tiger Foam needed to fill a cavity. Not that I want to make your sales of your foam kits decrease; but the idea may even increase sales because contractors could save in the long run because foam from trimmings and scrap is being utilized as they insulate the cavity. Let me know if my idea has merit or if it is for the birds.

Sincerely,

George J. Birds Jr.
Lebec, CA
birdsgyjk@wmconnect.com

By: Don

Don — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:21:31 +0000

That is a question that needs to be asked about all agricultural production. Soybeans, like other agricultural commodities, are, as I stated above, a fungible product – in other words, you cannot isolate the source of the commodity – say choose to only buy “organic” soy or even soy produced in a certain region. Even if all agricultural equipment were running on biofuels (for which there is not sufficient supply), there will still be the impact of the pollution from their combustion. Almost every human action has an environmental impact. The good news is that, according a McKinsey report, increasing insulation is the best investment one can make environmentally. Sure, energy resources are consumed in its production – even if a small amount is replaced with bio-sourced materials. But the payback on that consumption is at least 70-fold over the life of the building.

By: SHS

SHS — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:48:52 +0000

Great question Brett. In order to bring this thing to the next level we need to ask the hard questions. What if they were using a biofuel to produce the soybeans (fuel for tractors, pesticides, herbicides, organic production)?

By: Brett

Brett — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 02:37:20 +0000

I might be off base here, but I would like to know how much oil is used to produce the soybeans. Once you add all the gas the tractors use, all the petroleum based herbicides and everything else, if it really is still even a plus at all?

By: Don

Don — Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:33:36 +0000

To answer your question, Albert, there is indeed merit to water blown soy based polyurethane foam insulation – for the same reason there is merit to all polyurethane foam insulations, which I have mentioned above. Are companies capitalizing on the renewable resource / recycled content of their products? Yes, and so they should. This is by no means “greenwashing” – having any amount of non-petroleum based materials is a plus. But the primary environmental benefit of spray foam is energy conservation – up to 60% depending on the building, its location and use.

By: Albert

Albert — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:50:38 +0000

There is no disputing the effectiveness of spray foam as an insulation product. In my dealing with builders, we’ve always recommended spray foam to customers. It costs more up front, but it saves in the long run. I’m a fan of spray foam, I use Great Stuff around the door frames and window frames in my 100+ year old apartment.

What I am interested in learning about, or encouraging to change, is how spray foam gets from the source material to the finished material.

Are companies like BioBased greenwashing by repackaging existing organic based spray foam and potentially selling it for more than a competitor, or is there legitimate merit to the stated benefits of “water-blown soy based insulation?”

By: Don

Don — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 23:03:35 +0000

The competitive advantage of spray polyurethane foam insulation, regardless of it’s renewable resource content, is that it prevents air infiltration and leakage. Large scale tests have demonstrated that for a given R-value (the standard measure of insulation), spray foam insulation performs better than fiber insulation – saving up to 60% on energy consumption. The “greenness” of spray foam comes from that “payback” in energy savings. It has been estimated that the initial “investment” in petroleum returns 70-fold over the life of a typical home if sprayfoam is selected.

It should also be noted that soybean oil is extracted from the “skin” of the seed and can be considered a by-product.